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Post by Spencer on Nov 27, 2006 1:28:55 GMT -5
Could you guys whine more? Just curious. You guys pretty obviously being Mark and Aaron.
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Post by Lumley316 on Nov 27, 2006 1:51:47 GMT -5
Hill should be better too, but not because of that horrendous logic. I felt left out and wanted to whine too
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Post by Spencer on Nov 27, 2006 1:54:16 GMT -5
Hill should be better too, but not because of that horrendous logic. I felt left out and wanted to whine too Well this is certainly the thread for it. Id probably be bitter too if I were a Knicks fan.
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Post by Lumley316 on Nov 27, 2006 2:15:57 GMT -5
Well Im not happy with the Clippers of late, time to moan and groan.
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Post by KruPaxson on Nov 27, 2006 2:29:25 GMT -5
does it really matter who is good and who is bad? aaron and mark don't tell me that you wouldn't draft bd with those ratings....not to mention who is to say those would be his ratings? these are projected and we all know spence has altered ratings from beginning to end...not to mention who knows if he will even be in this draft class.
In real life I agree with mostly all that duce had to say. I am really curious what bd will do in GS under the tutelage of Nelson with some of the great young talent around him. In limited action this season his fg% is at an all time high, his 3pt attempts are down which is good, and he is avg 20ppg 8apg with over 2spg. Also Mark and Aaron who seem to be all over Deron Williams nuts is avg 3 less ppg, has more topg, and only 1spg. Now this is not a snub at Williams because I think he is going to become a great pg but how can you rank him ahead? Get your facts straight before you make these arguments.
BD 1 of 3 pg's to avg 20ppg with at least 8apg(Nash and Wade) Most steals per game out of any PG in the league Billups, Kidd, AI, Gordon, Marbury, Tinsley, Arenas, Felton, Stoudamire, Bibby all have lower fg% this season
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 27, 2006 3:02:11 GMT -5
Here are my rankings right now
1. Nash 2. Paul 3. Kidd 4. Arenas 5. Baron Davis 6.Iverson 7. Billups 8. Parker 9. Bibby 10. Deron 11. Miller 12. Hinrich 13. Ridnour 14. Ford 15. Cassell 16. Jason Williams 17. Mo Williams 18. Jameer 19. Felton/Knight 20. D Harris 21. Rafer 22. Tinsley 23. Lue 24. Jack 25. Smush 26. James 27. Stoudamire 28. Telfair 29. Marbury
The last 4 I hate with a passion therefore I dont know where to put them
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 27, 2006 3:05:00 GMT -5
Mark and Aaron just live with it, not taking BD is like saying your not having sex with a hot girl because she shouldnt be as hot as she is
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Post by KruPaxson on Nov 27, 2006 3:14:10 GMT -5
Here are my rankings right now 1. Nash 2. Paul 3. Kidd 4. Arenas 5. Baron Davis 6.Iverson 7. Billups 8. Parker 9. Bibby 10. Deron 11. Miller 12. Hinrich 13. Ridnour 14. Ford 15. Cassell 16. Jason Williams 17. Mo Williams 18. Jameer 19. Felton/Knight 20. D Harris 21. Rafer 22. Tinsley 23. Lue 24. Jack 25. Smush 26. James 27. Stoudamire 28. Telfair 29. Marbury The last 4 I hate with a passion therefore I dont know where to put them i think mo should be over jason williams as williams should be alot lower, ai higher then bd, also i think jack should be a bit higher
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 27, 2006 8:37:14 GMT -5
In real life I agree with mostly all that duce had to say. I am really curious what bd will do in GS under the tutelage of Nelson with some of the great young talent around him. In limited action this season his fg% is at an all time high, his 3pt attempts are down which is good, and he is avg 20ppg 8apg with over 2spg. Also Mark and Aaron who seem to be all over Deron Williams nuts is avg 3 less ppg, has more topg, and only 1spg. Now this is not a snub at Williams because I think he is going to become a great pg but how can you rank him ahead? Get your facts straight before you make these arguments. Are you fucking kidding? 3 less ppg is total nonsense Deron is shooting 48%!!! Baron has horrendous percentages this year, even if his shooting is up to 43%. All Deron would need to do to match Baron's scoring is take one or two more shots a night. I'll take two less points, +5% FG, and over 9 assists on 12-2 team that's gone without AK for about half the year. He's also played unbelievable defense this year. Go look at what opposing PGs have done on him this year. High turnovers and really low assists.
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 27, 2006 8:38:50 GMT -5
And, for example, Jason Kidd's putting up 8 fewer points and "only 1 spg" with higher turnovers. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm still taking Kidd though.
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Post by nybombers3 on Nov 27, 2006 8:44:30 GMT -5
You guys may not notice this but Spencer likes to rate the higher profile fan favorite players better then real life, I also like this bcoz it brings more hype to the sim and makes it more fun. To see your favorite player tear it up. Fine, as long as David Lee is B/B/C/A+/A+/A to start. You suck. Lee should be an A inside scorer.
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 27, 2006 8:45:39 GMT -5
In response to Duce's post, it's not a question of Ifs. Baron is the system. You know, being as he is a star point guard, he should be pretty accountable for constantly being on shit teams. And I'd consider Jamal Mashburn and Jason Richardson stars, so he's not exactly been surrounded by nobody's for his career.
Nobody's arguing that he doesn't penetrate well, or doesn't run the break well. His B+ handling grade is nonsense, and I can't look around and see what guys like Rip, Marion, AK, Brand are rated and then see this guy's ratings being justified.
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 27, 2006 8:50:28 GMT -5
Baron Davis is NOT over rated. Here's a guy who has been in horrible offensive systems and has never played with a star. As a talent, Baron is most definitely one of the better players that are playing the point guard position... whether he is supposed to play there or not. Though he's not better than Kidd, he certainly is not what you guys are saying. Davis is an exceptional defender, I really think we could just bicker all day about "I think he is" and "I think he isn't", we're not gonna get anywhere with that but how you guys think he's not a good defender is beyond me... IMO he's great at staying in front of his man, steals, post play vs pg's, etc... I just don't get yall on that. Offensively there aren't many who run the break as well as Baron. He's a great playmaker and he attacks the rim very well. And there lies the problem. Baron has a bad shot selection. His range doesn't really extend to the 3 point line. He takes too many long shots. He doesn't have a great attitude. That is all true. That's what makes people not think he's good, because when he's in a non-winning situation he simply doesn't care. He's ignored playcalls from coaches and is reluctant to risk his body going to the hole. Talent-wise though, Baron is a stud. And if he played to his strength and had a better attitude he'd be that good all the time. I just think that in a sim league you can't really factor all that stuff. He should be as great as his talent is. He makes poor decisions sometimes. And sometimes those decisions are more frequent. This season he has been pretty much amazing, and at 26 I think its realistic to think hes gonna continue to grow as a player. Dude's 27. I think it's realistic to say his body is going to break down and his career will be over next week.
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Post by aaron2344 on Nov 27, 2006 13:54:19 GMT -5
The main point seems to be the B+ handles. Both sides have decent arguments, but thus far, the ratings are quite low on other players and to give B+ handles to a rookie, who didn't do anything to warrant such handles as a rookie, is already inflating the ratings. Like someone said, Baron Davis will have A+ ratings before you know it. I was hoping we kept A+ ratings to the chosen few (Nash handles, Wallace defense, Artest defense) and not to players who have A- and possibly A handles.
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Post by Spencer on Nov 27, 2006 14:05:54 GMT -5
The main point seems to be the B+ handles. Both sides have decent arguments, but thus far, the ratings are quite low on other players and to give B+ handles to a rookie, who didn't do anything to warrant such handles as a rookie, is already inflating the ratings. Like someone said, Baron Davis will have A+ ratings before you know it. I was hoping we kept A+ ratings to the chosen few (Nash handles, Wallace defense, Artest defense) and not to players who have A- and possibly A handles. No one has any faith. I do this stuff a million times, and things usually turn out fine, and still there is no faith.
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Post by duce on Nov 27, 2006 15:15:09 GMT -5
In response to Duce's post, it's not a question of Ifs. Baron is the system. You know, being as he is a star point guard, he should be pretty accountable for constantly being on shit teams. And I'd consider Jamal Mashburn and Jason Richardson stars, so he's not exactly been surrounded by nobody's for his career. Aaron, I have no beef with you but I don't think Jason Richardson is a star. He's been a project from the beginning and yes he is GOING to be a star but his shot selection is probably just as bad as Baron's was. Jamal Mashburn also took questionable shots. They were great players, I didn't say Baron was always surrounded by crap, but they're not stars. Deron Williams has a star... it makes a difference and a half. And yeah, he should be accountable. I'm not trying to say Baron is god or anything... I pretty much covered every fair angle I could. But how does that relate to FBB? I personally don't think it should. Everyone's player has to "try to win" in a video game. So shouldn't his talent and skills be a good thing in the game?
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Post by Dan on Nov 27, 2006 17:04:48 GMT -5
"See what I think about Baron is that he isn't as overrated as he is underrated, therefore creating a happy medium and I don't know where I'm going with this. I get a post though, right?" "Hmm well I watched basketball once on my television and I saw Baron put the ball in the hoop and pass the ball. He's my favorite like Dora the Explorer and Blue's Clues, their my friends too like Baron." fuck you
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Post by ducky on Nov 27, 2006 18:45:29 GMT -5
Here are my rankings right now 1. Nash 2. Paul 3. Kidd 4. Arenas 5. Baron Davis 6.Iverson 7. Billups 8. Parker 9. Bibby 10. Deron 11. Miller 12. Hinrich 13. Ridnour 14. Ford 15. Cassell 16. Jason Williams 17. Mo Williams 18. Jameer 19. Felton/Knight 20. D Harris 21. Rafer 22. Tinsley 23. Lue 24. Jack 25. Smush 26. James 27. Stoudamire 28. Telfair 29. Marbury The last 4 I hate with a passion therefore I dont know where to put them sucks, Rid is better than all of those guys
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Post by The X-Factor on Nov 27, 2006 19:15:21 GMT -5
best point of guard of all-time.
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Post by Mark on Nov 27, 2006 19:21:56 GMT -5
Could you guys whine more? Just curious. It's easy to whine when someone is so clearly better (yet inferior in real life) in ratings than other players.
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Post by Mark on Nov 27, 2006 19:25:10 GMT -5
He is talented, which is why he is such an overrated player. Everything you mentioned above is extremely debatable. He is a strong point guard, and can post up. He is not one of the top five defenders at the 1. Where you got that, I have no idea. No one views him as such a stud defender. He is not one of the top 5 passers from the 1. Again, where you got that, I have no idea. He is a talented but injury prone guard who has an inflated offensive game (people think he's a big time scorer) because he shoots enough shots that his miserable % is masked by good PPG totals. I don't see how we're possibly going to give a PG that averages 3 TPG A+ handles. As for your original post with his strengths.. if this guy is an amazing passer, well, there are a ton of amazing passers then. His teams are always crap, and he's going to be a franchise player? To be honest, it seems damn biased to me. Since when are you the end all, be all of NBA scouting? Hilarious. Yeah, hilarious. I didn't give off that kind of tone at all. When did you become the end all, be all of NBA scouting, since you're clearly refusing to adjust ratings even though they are so clearly wrong? Seems to me that someone refusing to change is acting a bit more "end all, be all" then someone who thinks there should be a change. Baron is not nearly as good as you made him, in comparison to the other ratings. It's so simple.
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Post by Mark on Nov 27, 2006 19:28:02 GMT -5
Baron Davis is NOT over rated. Here's a guy who has been in horrible offensive systems and has never played with a star. As a talent, Baron is most definitely one of the better players that are playing the point guard position... whether he is supposed to play there or not. Though he's not better than Kidd, he certainly is not what you guys are saying. Davis is an exceptional defender, I really think we could just bicker all day about "I think he is" and "I think he isn't", we're not gonna get anywhere with that but how you guys think he's not a good defender is beyond me... IMO he's great at staying in front of his man, steals, post play vs pg's, etc... I just don't get yall on that. Offensively there aren't many who run the break as well as Baron. He's a great playmaker and he attacks the rim very well. And there lies the problem. Baron has a bad shot selection. His range doesn't really extend to the 3 point line. He takes too many long shots. He doesn't have a great attitude. That is all true. That's what makes people not think he's good, because when he's in a non-winning situation he simply doesn't care. He's ignored playcalls from coaches and is reluctant to risk his body going to the hole. Talent-wise though, Baron is a stud. And if he played to his strength and had a better attitude he'd be that good all the time. I just think that in a sim league you can't really factor all that stuff. He should be as great as his talent is. He makes poor decisions sometimes. And sometimes those decisions are more frequent. This season he has been pretty much amazing, and at 26 I think its realistic to think hes gonna continue to grow as a player. Nothing like an 11 game sample size over a 460 game sample size.
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Post by Mark on Nov 27, 2006 19:29:12 GMT -5
I felt left out and wanted to whine too Well this is certainly the thread for it. Id probably be bitter too if I were a Knicks fan. I'm actually a Nets fan, but if I was a Knicks fan, I'm sure my response would be "make the playoffs and then talk".
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Post by Mark on Nov 27, 2006 19:31:47 GMT -5
does it really matter who is good and who is bad? aaron and mark don't tell me that you wouldn't draft bd with those ratings....
-- Ha, who the hell said we wouldn’t draft him? Where exactly did you pull that out? -- not to mention who is to say those would be his ratings? these are projected and we all know spence has altered ratings from beginning to end...not to mention who knows if he will even be in this draft class. -- The draft class means nothing, since we’re discussing the player. As for the ratings, well, that’s all we can go by, right? I think it’s a fair thing to take issue with. -- Also Mark and Aaron who seem to be all over Deron Williams nuts is avg 3 less ppg, has more topg, and only 1spg. Now this is not a snub at Williams because I think he is going to become a great pg but how can you rank him ahead? Get your facts straight before you make these arguments. -- Get our facts straight? Deron has been better than Baron this year in my book. Aaron already provided the reasons why.
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Post by Mark on Nov 27, 2006 19:32:37 GMT -5
Mark and Aaron just live with it, not taking BD is like saying your not having sex with a hot girl because she shouldnt be as hot as she is Um, I'd take BD in a heart beat. He's insanely good in this sim (projected) and a franchise player. He shouldn't be. But, where is this coming from? Who said we wouldn't take him?
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