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Post by aaronjh on Nov 26, 2006 22:03:59 GMT -5
Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Gilbert Arenas, Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Tony Parker
Come on, are you taking Baron over any of those guys?
Then look at guys like Cassell, Bibby, Miller, Hinrich, Ford...there, it's a matter of preference. In my book, he's a hardly a top PG, and he's absolutely a chucker, so he's not a pleasure to watch, either. Sorry, to me, he's 20 and 8 much like Stephon Marbury. I understand Golden State is playing well right now, but I don't think he's very much the protoype at PG. Overdribbles, shoots a lot, turns it over. He's supertalented, but he's coming into the league as by far the best player in the file and immediately a top five PG. Doesn't add up.
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Post by aaron2344 on Nov 26, 2006 22:19:00 GMT -5
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Post by GP on Nov 26, 2006 22:55:51 GMT -5
Davis is a lil overrated but I dont think hes as bad as Mark and Aaron are saying. He's really a 2 guard playing the point guard spot just like AI or Arenas. Honestly, hes still a top 10 PG in the league because he is so quick off the dribble and not afraid to lead a team and take a shot at the end of the game. Granted his teams have always been bad but only Parker and Billups have won titles below.
Id say right now the best PGs in the game are: 1- Nash 2- Paul 3- Kidd 4- Parker 5- Iverson 6- Billups 7- Arenas 8- Bibby 9- Baron Davis 10- Deron Williams
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Post by KruPaxson on Nov 26, 2006 23:02:43 GMT -5
i agree with some of the points aaron made but manas is just agreeing because he likes to see the high ratings and yes dj boykins is a freak
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Post by djmyte on Nov 26, 2006 23:11:57 GMT -5
It's a sim league... maybe Baron turns out to be a franchise player in this one...
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:17:18 GMT -5
It's a sim league... maybe Baron turns out to be a franchise player in this one... Why? I don't get that at all. We know he isn't, so why would we make him one if he isn't? Is it based 100% on the fact that he plays for the Warriors, or more lik 80%?
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 26, 2006 23:18:53 GMT -5
Davis is a lil overrated but I dont think hes as bad as Mark and Aaron are saying. He's really a 2 guard playing the point guard spot just like AI or Arenas. Honestly, hes still a top 10 PG in the league because he is so quick off the dribble and not afraid to lead a team and take a shot at the end of the game. Granted his teams have always been bad but only Parker and Billups have won titles below. Id say right now the best PGs in the game are: 1- Nash 2- Paul 3- Kidd 4- Parker 5- Iverson 6- Billups 7- Arenas 8- Bibby 9- Baron Davis10- Deron Williams I didn't count AI because Ollie is starting alongside him, kinda bumping him to the 2. Otherwise, I'd definitely put Deron ahead of Bibby and Baron, and then the rest of the list looks fine. I'd still take the other guys I mentioned over Baron, but no matter what, he's not the player the Golden State fans make him out to be.
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:20:18 GMT -5
Deron Williams is a better point than Baron. Regardless, you have him ranked as the NINTH starting point. And we're about to make him one of the best players in the sim? WHY?!
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Post by Lumley316 on Nov 26, 2006 23:22:09 GMT -5
You guys may not notice this but Spencer likes to rate the higher profile fan favorite players better then real life, I also like this bcoz it brings more hype to the sim and makes it more fun. To see your favorite player tear it up.
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:23:08 GMT -5
My favorite player is Jason Kidd. To think that Baron Davis is anywhere near Jason Kidd hurts me. It makes it less fun for me. It saddens me.
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 26, 2006 23:23:39 GMT -5
You guys may not notice this but Spencer likes to rate the higher profile fan favorite players better then real life, I also like this bcoz it brings more hype to the sim and makes it more fun. To see your favorite player tear it up. Fine, as long as David Lee is B/B/C/A+/A+/A to start.
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Post by Lumley316 on Nov 26, 2006 23:25:09 GMT -5
Kidd is taller, so the sim will give him more of a edge in the matchups columns
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:26:01 GMT -5
Um, Kidd should have the edge because of how badly he has the edge, not because of an inch in height.
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Post by Lumley316 on Nov 26, 2006 23:27:23 GMT -5
LOL k if Kidd is suppose to be alot higher, then why not Hill after all they shared the rookie of the year award whent hey both came out.
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:30:55 GMT -5
Hill should be better too, but not because of that horrendous logic.
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 26, 2006 23:36:57 GMT -5
Baron Davis in some people's mind is overated ok I can see your point, I think however that people really underestimate his ability in playing the team game though and placing him as a Stephon Marbury clone which he defintley isn't.
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:38:20 GMT -5
And yet he's going to be a franchise player in this sim.
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 26, 2006 23:43:07 GMT -5
I have to agree with Mark, (space filled with worthless postpadding jargon that is irrelavant to the whole discussion)
.....
so thats what I think
-my dan post of the evening
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Post by Mark on Nov 26, 2006 23:45:22 GMT -5
I have to agree with Mark, (space filled with worthless postpadding jargon that is irrelavant to the whole discussion) ..... so thats what I think -my dan post of the evening "See what I think about Baron is that he isn't as overrated as he is underrated, therefore creating a happy medium and I don't know where I'm going with this. I get a post though, right?"
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 26, 2006 23:46:53 GMT -5
I have to agree with Mark, (space filled with worthless postpadding jargon that is irrelavant to the whole discussion) ..... so thats what I think -my dan post of the evening "See what I think about Baron is that he isn't as overrated as he is underrated, therefore creating a happy medium and I don't know where I'm going with this. I get a post though, right?" "Hmm well I watched basketball once on my television and I saw Baron put the ball in the hoop and pass the ball. He's my favorite like Dora the Explorer and Blue's Clues, their my friends too like Baron."
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Post by duce on Nov 27, 2006 0:38:50 GMT -5
Baron Davis is NOT over rated.
Here's a guy who has been in horrible offensive systems and has never played with a star. As a talent, Baron is most definitely one of the better players that are playing the point guard position... whether he is supposed to play there or not. Though he's not better than Kidd, he certainly is not what you guys are saying.
Davis is an exceptional defender, I really think we could just bicker all day about "I think he is" and "I think he isn't", we're not gonna get anywhere with that but how you guys think he's not a good defender is beyond me... IMO he's great at staying in front of his man, steals, post play vs pg's, etc... I just don't get yall on that.
Offensively there aren't many who run the break as well as Baron. He's a great playmaker and he attacks the rim very well.
And there lies the problem. Baron has a bad shot selection. His range doesn't really extend to the 3 point line. He takes too many long shots. He doesn't have a great attitude. That is all true. That's what makes people not think he's good, because when he's in a non-winning situation he simply doesn't care. He's ignored playcalls from coaches and is reluctant to risk his body going to the hole.
Talent-wise though, Baron is a stud. And if he played to his strength and had a better attitude he'd be that good all the time. I just think that in a sim league you can't really factor all that stuff. He should be as great as his talent is.
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Post by Spencer on Nov 27, 2006 1:11:22 GMT -5
Could you guys whine more? Just curious.
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Post by Spencer on Nov 27, 2006 1:19:44 GMT -5
Youve never seen him play everyday obviously because he has some amazing skills for a point guard. He is easily the strongest point guard in the league. Hes probably one of the top 5 defenders at the 1 and probably one of the top 5 passers from the 1. Hes been hurt by injuries, weight gain and a bad attitude, but remember hes only 26. I think his best basketball is still ahead of him. He is talented, which is why he is such an overrated player. Everything you mentioned above is extremely debatable. He is a strong point guard, and can post up. He is not one of the top five defenders at the 1. Where you got that, I have no idea. No one views him as such a stud defender. He is not one of the top 5 passers from the 1. Again, where you got that, I have no idea. He is a talented but injury prone guard who has an inflated offensive game (people think he's a big time scorer) because he shoots enough shots that his miserable % is masked by good PPG totals. I don't see how we're possibly going to give a PG that averages 3 TPG A+ handles. As for your original post with his strengths.. if this guy is an amazing passer, well, there are a ton of amazing passers then. His teams are always crap, and he's going to be a franchise player? To be honest, it seems damn biased to me. Since when are you the end all, be all of NBA scouting? Hilarious.
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Post by Spencer on Nov 27, 2006 1:21:21 GMT -5
Baron Davis is NOT over rated. Here's a guy who has been in horrible offensive systems and has never played with a star. As a talent, Baron is most definitely one of the better players that are playing the point guard position... whether he is supposed to play there or not. Though he's not better than Kidd, he certainly is not what you guys are saying. Davis is an exceptional defender, I really think we could just bicker all day about "I think he is" and "I think he isn't", we're not gonna get anywhere with that but how you guys think he's not a good defender is beyond me... IMO he's great at staying in front of his man, steals, post play vs pg's, etc... I just don't get yall on that. Offensively there aren't many who run the break as well as Baron. He's a great playmaker and he attacks the rim very well. And there lies the problem. Baron has a bad shot selection. His range doesn't really extend to the 3 point line. He takes too many long shots. He doesn't have a great attitude. That is all true. That's what makes people not think he's good, because when he's in a non-winning situation he simply doesn't care. He's ignored playcalls from coaches and is reluctant to risk his body going to the hole. Talent-wise though, Baron is a stud. And if he played to his strength and had a better attitude he'd be that good all the time. I just think that in a sim league you can't really factor all that stuff. He should be as great as his talent is. He makes poor decisions sometimes. And sometimes those decisions are more frequent. This season he has been pretty much amazing, and at 26 I think its realistic to think hes gonna continue to grow as a player.
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Post by duce on Nov 27, 2006 1:26:27 GMT -5
especially with don nelson there now, he should improve yea.
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