steve
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Oakland Athletics
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 11:01:16 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 11:01:16 GMT -5
As a diehard Packers fan, I'm biased, but where does Brett Favre rank on the list of greatest quarterbacks of all time?
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 12:55:56 GMT -5
Post by aaronjh on Mar 4, 2008 12:55:56 GMT -5
Like top eight, maybe. By far the most overrated player ever. Like, he legit sucked for half of his career, and his best years were good but not stellar.
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Nanz
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Arizona Diamondbacks
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 13:12:38 GMT -5
Post by Nanz on Mar 4, 2008 13:12:38 GMT -5
He has accomplished everything a QB can accomplish. In my opinion he is on of the greatest to have played the position and the most durable. It sucks to see him retire after such a great season.
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steve
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Oakland Athletics
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 13:21:45 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 13:21:45 GMT -5
Like top eight, maybe. By far the most overrated player ever. Like, he legit sucked for half of his career, and his best years were good but not stellar. He sucked for like two years because he had zero teammates and he tried to do everything himself, tried to force things. Look what happened when his team improved last year. He was able to play like Brett Favre and had a pretty incredible season for a 38 year old. He made the players around him better. And his good seasons were pretty stellar (3 MVPs in a row?). Plus every record in the book. Plus never missed a game. Plus a ring. Plus it is impossible to not like him, he still plays like he's in pop warner.
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 13:31:47 GMT -5
Post by Mark on Mar 4, 2008 13:31:47 GMT -5
Like top eight, maybe. By far the most overrated player ever. Like, he legit sucked for half of his career, and his best years were good but not stellar. Completely agree. Hall of fame quarterback, but also ridiculously overrated. People bought into the "plays like a kid.. loves the game.. pop warner" stuff that Steve just mentioned, but in buying into that they look past the statistical gap between him and the top-5 quarterbacks (Montana, Unitas, even Brady, etc). Great player, but he was so inconsistent in way too many big games, and threw way too many critical interceptions.
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 13:37:47 GMT -5
Post by Mark on Mar 4, 2008 13:37:47 GMT -5
His stats are extremely good, but he's a little like Roger Clemens in that his overall stats are hugely tainted because of longevity as opposed to stringing together ten straight unbelievably great seasons. His MVP seasons were great. This isn't a knock on him as a quarterback - he was obviously extremely good, and a hall-of-famer - but I don't consider him in the top-5. Too many critical picks.
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steve
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Oakland Athletics
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 13:53:21 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 13:53:21 GMT -5
He did throw a lot of picks obviously, he has the record. As I said, a lot of those were in the few seasons leading up to last season when he tried to put the team on his shoulders. However, "critical picks" implies whenever the game was on the line, he threw interceptions. I can only remember two times that happened, one being the NFC championship game this year (obviously a big one). Other than those two, his interceptions came for the most part in games where he was down 21 points and was just trying to get his team back in the game. When there were two minutes remaining in a game, there were few quarterbacks better at getting the points needed to win. And I'm sick of "Brady is better than Favre". Brady has had one great year, other than that he's been an average quarterback through the years, the quarterback of a great team. Again, I know I'm biased, I've been in love with Brett Favre since about 1995, but I would legitimately have Favre behind maybe Montana, Unitas, possibly Elway, possibly Marino, and that's it. Maybe Manning by the end of his career. Either way, this news has sent me into depression. I can't imagine the Packers without Favre.
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steve
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Oakland Athletics
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 13:55:10 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 13:55:10 GMT -5
wow good thing i just wrote a book.
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 14:07:13 GMT -5
Post by Mark on Mar 4, 2008 14:07:13 GMT -5
This idea that "Favre throws critical picks" didn't just start after the Giants game. It's been a knock on him his whole career. There are many examples. As for Brady, I don't think it's even a question. He just had the best statistical season a QB has ever had, has an MVP, and three super bowl trophies. More than any other sport, individual football accolades are based off of team success. Three super bowls is an unbelievable accomplishment, and he's got an absurdly good chance to get a fourth (if not a fifth). I understand being biased towards Favre (so this argument is likely going to go nowhere), but there were better quarterbacks,
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 16:43:03 GMT -5
Post by aaronjh on Mar 4, 2008 16:43:03 GMT -5
Brady has one good year? Go compare the seasons Brady has to Favre's prime. Favre couldn't hold a candle to Brady as a passer, all accomplishments aside. Brady's the best decision-maker in the game by miles, and is way more accurate than Favre was. Favre was always an elite quarterback. He benefitted from his personality, playing in Green Bay and having great defenses. He doesn't rank among the best QBs of all time.
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 17:24:53 GMT -5
Post by Dan on Mar 4, 2008 17:24:53 GMT -5
Peyton manning is the best QB in the game IMO, manning will be top 5 when he is done. I think Favre is top 10 best qb of all time though.
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Nanz
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Arizona Diamondbacks
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 17:29:48 GMT -5
Post by Nanz on Mar 4, 2008 17:29:48 GMT -5
Kurt Warner is i say top 6ish id say.
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steve
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 17:51:35 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 17:51:35 GMT -5
Matt Cassel = #1.
But seriously, I think Manning will in the top 5, ahead of Favre and Brady when all is said and done.
Brady was accurate because he only threw high percentage screen passes until he got Randy Moss, then he just threw it up in the air for the freak to come down with. But I do agree that he has a ton of composure on the field. Although this could be a factor of an outstanding o-line. Altogether, he has always been on a better team than Favre ever had.
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 18:07:54 GMT -5
Post by aaronjh on Mar 4, 2008 18:07:54 GMT -5
Matt Cassel = #1. But seriously, I think Manning will in the top 5, ahead of Favre and Brady when all is said and done. Brady was accurate because he only threw high percentage screen passes until he got Randy Moss, then he just threw it up in the air for the freak to come down with. But I do agree that he has a ton of composure on the field. Although this could be a factor of an outstanding o-line. Altogether, he has always been on a better team than Favre ever had. I've seen the majority of Brady's games, easily. Probably closer to 70%. He uses every target brilliantly, and can put the ball anywhere. It was never just a screen pass game. He mixed up his receivers a lot and picked about defenses for an easy 3,600+ yards a year. He has always been able to develop great chemistry with his receivers, so he fools DBs and LBs in coverage by ignoring guys until passing it their way at the least second. No QB could get by on screens, not for 28 touchdowns, not for 4,000 yards. Brady is a beast.
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PB
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Houston Astros
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 18:43:50 GMT -5
Post by PB on Mar 4, 2008 18:43:50 GMT -5
For his longevity, records he broke, and what for what he brought every sunday, I would definitely put Favre in the top 10. I think it is wrong to say that he is extremely overrated. I don't know how it can be said he sucked the first half of his career, averaging around 35 TDs, 4,000 yards, winning 3 MVPs and a Super Bowl. Also, just for being able to play 15 consecutive seasons and still put up excellent numbers at age 38, does make him a legend (there is a reason why no one else in the NFL has done that before).
However, like Mark said, for all his records, he has had some VERY critical interceptions is inconsistent. For all the numbers Favre has put up, he has had 5 seasons where he threw over 20 picks (one of them being 29!). I understand that Favre was trying to carry the team but it is the QBs responsibility to manage the game and not commit turnovers.
Also Steve, it is not outrageous to say Brady is better than Favre. It is not like Brady was a nobody before this season. While Favre has more records (due to the longevity of his career), going with Mark's statement, Brady has 3 rings, came off the best season a QB could ever have, and is one of the best (if not the greatest) at late game comebacks. To note, Brady has won more playoff games (14 of 17) in half the time Favre has (12 of 22). And in the losses against the Colts and Giants, Brady played well enough for his team to win.
When you debate on who the greatest QB of all time is, you are asking who has been the best/most consistent over the the duration of their careers and who was the greatest with the ball in their hands down with 2 minutes to go. You can say Montana had Rice or that Brady had Moss (he won 3 Super Bowls without him) but they strike the greatest balance of excellence over their careers with grace under pressure. On pure numbers alone, Manning is a beast and is by far the best. If Manning stays healthy the next 5 seasons, not only will he smash every passing record there is and will eclipse Favre's consecutive game streak.
So after all my rambling my top 5 are...
1. Montana 2. Manning 3. Brady 4. Marino 5. Elway
Favre I would put at 6-8. There is no doubt that he is one of greatest that played the game.
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steve
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 18:57:38 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 18:57:38 GMT -5
I agree about Manning. But my eyeballs fell out because your novel was so long so I didn't catch any of the rest.
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PB
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 19:20:03 GMT -5
Post by PB on Mar 4, 2008 19:20:03 GMT -5
Now the next debate...should Brett have retired in the first place?
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steve
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Oakland Athletics
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 19:38:34 GMT -5
Post by steve on Mar 4, 2008 19:38:34 GMT -5
Now the next debate...should Brett have retired in the first place? Yes. As much as it pains me, it was the right decision. Even though he's still one of the best in the NFL. He explained it all. It's tough work preparing week after week after week for 17 years. He's just "mentally tired", as he said. The guy's 38, it's understandable he probably just wants to spend more time with his family, his daughter Brittany is in her first year at college. Maybe he realized he didn't see her enough before she went off to school and he wants to spend more time with Breleigh. And Deanna. As for the game, he still can obviously play at a very high level. BUT he wants to go out with a good year, last year was a good year. He can't let that last interception take anything away from it. His expectations for next year would be super bowl, anything less a disappointment. The chances of them winning the super bowl are slim. Next year would likely be a disappointment. Then what happens? He comes back hoping to win a super bowl? Next thing you know he's 49 and still playing. This was the right time. I just hope Aaron Rodgers or whoever tries to fill in doesn't suck too badly.
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Nanz
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 20:37:50 GMT -5
Post by Nanz on Mar 4, 2008 20:37:50 GMT -5
If you say Brady has won the rings and just came off the best season a QB can have, and the best when the game is on the line, what makes you put Manning infront of him? Manning and Brady are great but putting Manning at the second spot already? I dk
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 21:26:06 GMT -5
Post by cjmjones008 on Mar 4, 2008 21:26:06 GMT -5
As a Packer fan I think he is one of the best ever. He was overrated at some points in his career but he was a top 5 qb in the nfl for about every season he played. He has practically every record. I'm not sure how you can say they are a result of playing a lot longer. He played in a harder environment and on a lot less talented teams than Manning and Marino for the most part.
For his entire career, he is overrated because of fan appeal and how much love he had for the game. The start streak also gives him an extra boost from some people, but I think it should.
At this point I would rank him #2 behind Montana. Even though Montana was never impressive in the regular season. Brady (Even though he was very overrated early on imo) and Manning will both likely be infront of him in 10 years. I don't think Marino was better than Favre at all. Elway you can make a case for because he was great for most of his career but could never win till he had a great team. The only other QBs that should get consideration for top 5 in my opinion are Unitas and Graham. They may have been great for their time but that doesn't make them top 5 in my book.
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PB
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Houston Astros
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 21:33:28 GMT -5
Post by PB on Mar 4, 2008 21:33:28 GMT -5
If you say Brady has won the rings and just came off the best season a QB can have, and the best when the game is on the line, what makes you put Manning infront of him? Manning and Brady are great but putting Manning at the second spot already? I dk Brady is a better big game QB but Manning has consistently put up better numbers, so its a toss up b/w them. I shouldn't really rank them until their careers are over. But all I know is if the game is on the line and a post-corner route needs to be thrown over my right shoulder in the end zone, I know who I'm going to want to throw me the ball...
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Nanz
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Arizona Diamondbacks
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Brett
Mar 4, 2008 21:35:21 GMT -5
Post by Nanz on Mar 4, 2008 21:35:21 GMT -5
NANZ! That guy puts it wherever he wants it. He can make it rain out there!
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Brett
Mar 5, 2008 2:23:46 GMT -5
Post by Dan on Mar 5, 2008 2:23:46 GMT -5
Peyton Manning numbers will always be superior to Tom Brady, Brady is a great qb, but Peyton Manning is doing a lot more than Brady has ever done. Brady has more rings but really look at their stats. Tom Brady has never had a 100 + qb rating in a season except this past one, Manning has had at least 3 times. He puts up big numbers every year and is not done, I would rather have him than brady.
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