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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 18:31:14 GMT -5
Hornets Trade: Joe Johnson
Blazers Trade: Andre Iguodola Tasmin Mitchell Javaris Crittenton 2010 Pacers 1st 2010 Bucks 1st 1 RC (they owe me one by 2015, so this cancels that out)
Then, there is a part 2 to the deal that will be posted after FA.
Hornets Agree. This is a risky proposition, and it could backfire and screw me over big-time, but I like Iggy and think he's a solid player, and I think that Arthur will improve enough offensively + I'll be deep enough after Part 2 + FA and such where losing JJ's offense won't really affect me too much.
I do this to get younger, JJ is 30, and Iggy is younger, and while he's not as good offensively, everywhere else he's virtually the same. As I said, I feel as if my other moves yet to come this offseason will be enough to balance out the PPG I lose by dealing JJ.
Also, I really could use the picks for trade bait or to just add some young players.
It could cost me my job, but I'm willing to take that gamle & see what happens.
I'm certainly not done dealing, so before everyone flips out and says I'm dealing in circles, just realize that.
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2007 18:36:38 GMT -5
I agree.
JJ is a good player, 2 year deal so will be expiring next season, which is nice. He will help me win now if need be, unless i can get my pick back.
I lose all these guys and picks which is good since im close to the hard cap.
the next deal will be awesome for us.
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 2, 2007 19:26:57 GMT -5
Terrible.
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 2, 2007 19:27:39 GMT -5
Not terrible but not a good deal for nova.
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Post by cjmjones008 on Nov 2, 2007 19:49:43 GMT -5
i think dan gives up too much for jj but this is risky for nova... i doubt either of those 1sts help him make playoffs... crittenton and mitchell are terrible... iggy is a downgrade from jj
not really sure why either team does this because it doesnt help eithers direction much
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 2, 2007 20:14:33 GMT -5
i think dan gives up too much for jj but this is risky for nova... i doubt either of those 1sts help him make playoffs... crittenton and mitchell are terrible... iggy is a downgrade from jj not really sure why either team does this because it doesnt help eithers direction much I don't agree, with Spence by his side I think he's gonna turn this team into a playoff team and JJ will only help that. Nova downgrades once again and although he said "just realize I am not done dealing so don't flip out." Let me just break down the facts here. 1. Nova has had the same guys on the block for ever. No one payed his price for David Lee. No one is gonna pay the price for Darell Arthur a skinny, short power forward who probaly has 100 jumping and extremely low strength and inside scoring numbers resulting in his B+ rating. So cross out Arthur of people he is going to deal. 2. Just a week ago Dan was offering Igoudala for expirings. Nova trades Joe Johnson for him. If no one wants to deal expiring for Igoudala then who the hell is going to trade anything that can help him. Most likely he is going to overprice Igoudala when he could of offered his MLE for a player just as good or just around Igoudala that would of helped him win. Igoudala averaged 17 points as a first option on a team with nothing else when Boozer was injured. He will be lucky to average 14 (with the same ratings now). Cross out Igoudala. 3. Marvin Williams is like Michael Fucking Jordan in his eyes. I offered as a joke Kobe for Marv deal to him and he straight up said no. How someone can reject Kobe Bryant for that cheap when your in your contract year fucking boggles me. Ibaka is the only one who he might deal at a reasonable price and I doubt he gets what he needs to win. I might of spoken out against a Nova in the past, never like other people, never really went at him to hard of his trades but this is getting to be pretty pathetic. If he keeps the same "wait on my young guys to develop type philosophy" after TC and doesn't make any initiative to try and win then he deserves to get fucking fired.
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Post by aaronjh on Nov 2, 2007 20:19:17 GMT -5
Oh my.
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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 20:22:51 GMT -5
i think dan gives up too much for jj but this is risky for nova... i doubt either of those 1sts help him make playoffs... crittenton and mitchell are terrible... iggy is a downgrade from jj not really sure why either team does this because it doesnt help eithers direction much I don't agree, with Spence by his side I think he's gonna turn this team into a playoff team and JJ will only help that. Nova downgrades once again and although he said "just realize I am not done dealing so don't flip out." Let me just break down the facts here. 1. Nova has had the same guys on the block for ever. No one payed his price for David Lee. No one is gonna pay the price for Darell Arthur a skinny, short power forward who probaly has 100 jumping and extremely low strength and inside scoring numbers resulting in his B+ rating. So cross out Arthur of people he is going to deal. 2. Just a week ago Dan was offering Igoudala for expirings. Nova trades Joe Johnson for him. If no one wants to deal expiring for Igoudala then who the hell is going to trade anything that can help him. Most likely he is going to overprice Igoudala when he could of offered his MLE for a player just as good or just around Igoudala that would of helped him win. Igoudala averaged 17 points as a first option on a team with nothing else when Boozer was injured. He will be lucky to average 14 (with the same ratings now). Cross out Igoudala. 3. Marvin Williams is like Michael Fucking Jordan in his eyes. I offered as a joke Kobe for Marv deal to him and he straight up said no. How someone can reject Kobe Bryant for that cheap when your in your contract year fucking boggles me. Ibaka is the only one who he might deal at a reasonable price and I doubt he gets what he needs to win. I might of spoken out against a Nova in the past, never like other people, never really went at him to hard of his trades but this is getting to be pretty pathetic. If he keeps the same "wait on my young guys to develop type philosophy" after TC and doesn't make any initiative to try and win then he deserves to get fucking fired. I agree, if I don't win, I should be fired. I stood up and said it was risky, and it could bite me in the ass. If it does, that's my own fault. Also, Kobe is 8 years older then Marvin, who is a top 3 SF, if not the best in the league. I've had the same guys on the block forever? How so? I've only had Barbosa & JJ for a season, and it's not like I've been shopping around Arthur or Ibaka for ages. I'm not even in a rush to deal them, I'm really just seeing what's out there. Do I downgrade? Absolutely, but as I said, if you think I'm done dealing & sitting on this team, your dead wrong. JJ is 30, and has gone up/down/up the last 3 TC's, and I have no idea what the fuck to expect, I could very easily see him declining again and losing any value he has, which isn't much at this point anyways. This just gives me much more to work with trade-wise. I knew this would draw this reaction, I know I'll get trashed for it, but honestly, I either get the job done, or I don't. It's as simple as that, and I know it, so there's no need to continuously reiterate it.
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Post by garf2000 on Nov 2, 2007 20:23:11 GMT -5
so you like it for nova i take it?
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 2, 2007 20:32:55 GMT -5
I don't agree, with Spence by his side I think he's gonna turn this team into a playoff team and JJ will only help that. Nova downgrades once again and although he said "just realize I am not done dealing so don't flip out." Let me just break down the facts here. 1. Nova has had the same guys on the block for ever. No one payed his price for David Lee. No one is gonna pay the price for Darell Arthur a skinny, short power forward who probaly has 100 jumping and extremely low strength and inside scoring numbers resulting in his B+ rating. So cross out Arthur of people he is going to deal. 2. Just a week ago Dan was offering Igoudala for expirings. Nova trades Joe Johnson for him. If no one wants to deal expiring for Igoudala then who the hell is going to trade anything that can help him. Most likely he is going to overprice Igoudala when he could of offered his MLE for a player just as good or just around Igoudala that would of helped him win. Igoudala averaged 17 points as a first option on a team with nothing else when Boozer was injured. He will be lucky to average 14 (with the same ratings now). Cross out Igoudala. 3. Marvin Williams is like Michael Fucking Jordan in his eyes. I offered as a joke Kobe for Marv deal to him and he straight up said no. How someone can reject Kobe Bryant for that cheap when your in your contract year fucking boggles me. Ibaka is the only one who he might deal at a reasonable price and I doubt he gets what he needs to win. I might of spoken out against a Nova in the past, never like other people, never really went at him to hard of his trades but this is getting to be pretty pathetic. If he keeps the same "wait on my young guys to develop type philosophy" after TC and doesn't make any initiative to try and win then he deserves to get fucking fired. I agree, if I don't win, I should be fired. I stood up and said it was risky, and it could bite me in the ass. If it does, that's my own fault. Also, Kobe is 8 years older then Marvin, who is a top 3 SF, if not the best in the league. I've had the same guys on the block forever? How so? I've only had Barbosa & JJ for a season, and it's not like I've been shopping around Arthur or Ibaka for ages. I'm not even in a rush to deal them, I'm really just seeing what's out there. Do I downgrade? Absolutely, but as I said, if you think I'm done dealing & sitting on this team, your dead wrong. JJ is 30, and has gone up/down/up the last 3 TC's, and I have no idea what the fuck to expect, I could very easily see him declining again and losing any value he has, which isn't much at this point anyways. This just gives me much more to work with trade-wise. I knew this would draw this reaction, I know I'll get trashed for it, but honestly, I either get the job done, or I don't. It's as simple as that, and I know it, so there's no need to continuously reiterate it. Explain how this gives you much more to work with trade-wise when no one would give a mere expiring for Iggy.
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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 20:35:15 GMT -5
I agree, if I don't win, I should be fired. I stood up and said it was risky, and it could bite me in the ass. If it does, that's my own fault. Also, Kobe is 8 years older then Marvin, who is a top 3 SF, if not the best in the league. I've had the same guys on the block forever? How so? I've only had Barbosa & JJ for a season, and it's not like I've been shopping around Arthur or Ibaka for ages. I'm not even in a rush to deal them, I'm really just seeing what's out there. Do I downgrade? Absolutely, but as I said, if you think I'm done dealing & sitting on this team, your dead wrong. JJ is 30, and has gone up/down/up the last 3 TC's, and I have no idea what the fuck to expect, I could very easily see him declining again and losing any value he has, which isn't much at this point anyways. This just gives me much more to work with trade-wise. I knew this would draw this reaction, I know I'll get trashed for it, but honestly, I either get the job done, or I don't. It's as simple as that, and I know it, so there's no need to continuously reiterate it. Explain how this gives you much more to work with trade-wise when no one would give a mere expiring for Iggy. If no one wants him, then I'll keep him. He's not a scrub, is he overpaid? Yes, but so is probably 20% of the league. Your telling me JJ's not overpaid? It gives me two 1sts to work with, Iggy, and Part 2 also gives me more to work with once it gets done.
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Post by garf2000 on Nov 2, 2007 20:40:06 GMT -5
I thought JJ was one of the main reasons why your team became good last year. Surprised you would deal him.
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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 20:44:11 GMT -5
I thought JJ was one of the main reasons why your team became good last year. Surprised you would deal him. Don't get me wrong, I agree, he was a big reason I did win. Thing is though, I could have easily seen him dropping a good deal in TC, and even if he didn't, I've been shopping him for a while and haven't gotten anything offer-wise, whereas this gives me a lot more flexibility, even if I keep Iggy, I can consider moving Marvin to PF now and dealing one of my bigs, or packaging Arthur or Ibaka + Iggy + 1sts, etc. It just gives me more to work with trade wise as well as DC wise. I think after the offseason, I'll be a 40 win team, but right now, your right, I'm a 35 win team at best.
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Post by James on Nov 2, 2007 20:44:42 GMT -5
Not sure why NO downgrade. The last thing you want to do when you NEED to win is downgrade talent. Should have just kept th same team, added some nice FA's, maybe moved a player or two for an upgrade and bang, you have 40+ wins and a playoff appearence.
Like Pig said, Dan just had to add some nice pieces around JJ, a good passing point guard to give JJ an extra 5+ppg and he is set.
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 2, 2007 20:46:04 GMT -5
I thought JJ was one of the main reasons why your team became good last year. Surprised you would deal him. Hypothetically speaking he does Marv for Kobe. His team can run one fucking hell of a very fast outside orientated offense and absolutley press the shit out of teams, defenitley better then the one I ran this year. The athleticism of his front court would only help. Add a nice MLE, do some research sign some role players to a min deal and bam you got yourself a title contender right there. Blatantly he dosen't care whether he stays or not, there no way he can argue that he does.
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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 20:50:35 GMT -5
I thought JJ was one of the main reasons why your team became good last year. Surprised you would deal him. Hypothetically speaking he does Marv for Kobe. His team can run one fucking hell of a very fast outside orientated offense and absolutley press the shit out of teams, defenitley better then the one I ran this year. The athleticism of his front court would only help. Add a nice MLE, do some research sign some role players to a min deal and bam you got yourself a title contender right there. Blatantly he dosen't care whether he stays or not, there no way he can argue that he does. Getting Kobe doesn't make me a title contender. It makes me a 47-50 win team yes, but it doesn't make me a title contender. And I know I would have been a playoff team this year, but then JJ turns 31, by the time the rest of my guys are in their primes, JJ has already declined, and I'm bumfucked. I do care, and I am trying to stay. Clearly what I write makes no difference, clearly when I say I'm already looking ahead to my next deal(s), it means nothing. This is my last post on the matter, I knew I would get this reaction and I'm fine with it. If I get fired, I get fired, it's my fault. I'm taking a risk, I stated that, but I feel it's one worth taking.
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Post by Adelaide on Nov 2, 2007 20:55:00 GMT -5
I feel like I am talking to my mother.
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Post by garf2000 on Nov 2, 2007 20:58:56 GMT -5
The truth is 75% of this league won't be title contenders for at least 5 years. It's honorable to aim for a title, but at this point you need to just look for improvements. Barbosa-Kobe-Joe Johnson-Arthur-Ibaka is a team that will 100% win 45 games.
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Post by garf2000 on Nov 2, 2007 20:59:41 GMT -5
and Kobe made Pig a title contender in one offseason.
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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 21:00:21 GMT -5
The truth is 75% of this league won't be title contenders for at least 5 years. It's honorable to aim for a title, but at this point you need to just look for improvements. Barbosa-Kobe-Joe Johnson-Arthur-Ibaka is a team that will 100% win 45 games. Yes, but then I'm stuck rebuilding again in 2 seasons, and I don't have my 1sts until 2014(I dealt one of them, the rest were traded before I got here) Lol damn, I forgot I wasn't supposed to post anymore.
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Post by James on Nov 2, 2007 21:01:05 GMT -5
Nova, your current team will never ever contend, so I don't know what your saying. Kobe makes any team an automatic title favorite, just look what he did at Seattle.
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Post by nova on Nov 2, 2007 21:02:15 GMT -5
Nova, your current team will never ever contend, so I don't know what your saying. Kobe makes any team an automatic title favorite, just look what he did at Seattle. Yes, but he also had another star in Granger & a great big in Curry. I don't have either of those next to him right now.
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Post by garf2000 on Nov 2, 2007 21:07:01 GMT -5
He didn't have Curry for 3/4 of the year. Joe Johnson is close to what Granger is.
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Post by James on Nov 2, 2007 21:10:44 GMT -5
He didn't have them before, he just had Monroe. If you have the tools to get a top 3 player, surrounding him with others isn't that hard IMO. It's harder to pick up young talent...
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Post by Dan on Nov 2, 2007 21:26:12 GMT -5
For people to say i am giving up to much for JJ is crazy, IMO. What the hell am I giving up here that is use to me? nothing. I dont want iggy, he is overpaid and did not do anything special for me.
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