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Post by Vernon on Jun 21, 2007 0:15:58 GMT -5
Great achievement for him but it must seriously hurt being a Cubs fan to witness that.
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Post by JDawg on Jun 21, 2007 0:20:29 GMT -5
You took the words right out of my mouth.
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Post by Lumley316 on Jun 21, 2007 2:11:08 GMT -5
Way to go Sammy
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Post by KruPaxson on Jun 21, 2007 6:00:08 GMT -5
Great achievement for him but it must seriously hurt being a Cubs fan to witness that. it must seriously suck being a cubs fan period
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Post by Dan on Jun 21, 2007 8:43:03 GMT -5
sammy hits one for my fantasy team
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Post by The X-Factor on Jun 21, 2007 9:51:37 GMT -5
yawn who cares... baseball is the most tainted sport ever ,period.
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Post by cjmjones008 on Jun 21, 2007 10:16:58 GMT -5
Great achievement for him but it must seriously hurt being a Cubs fan to witness that. it must seriously suck being a cubs fan period
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Post by The X-Factor on Jun 21, 2007 10:51:23 GMT -5
Hey they'll make it one day... it sucked being a Bucs fan for a long time ha
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Post by gmgreggor on Jun 21, 2007 11:28:46 GMT -5
Yea, proof of what hard work and perserverence can do for you.
Oh and steroids and HGH too.
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Post by Vernon on Jun 21, 2007 14:33:53 GMT -5
Great achievement for him but it must seriously hurt being a Cubs fan to witness that. it must seriously suck being a cubs fan period True.
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Post by ducky on Jun 21, 2007 14:56:25 GMT -5
cork
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Post by Lumley316 on Jun 22, 2007 3:39:34 GMT -5
Yea, proof of what hard work and perserverence can do for you. Oh and steroids and HGH too. Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it.
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Post by Bender on Jun 22, 2007 4:22:46 GMT -5
nno hall of fame def not first ballot. mark maguire doesnt get in nor will sammy
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Post by JDawg on Jun 22, 2007 9:08:31 GMT -5
I think sosa has a better chance to get in than mcgwire.
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Post by Dan on Jun 22, 2007 9:12:55 GMT -5
Yea, proof of what hard work and perserverence can do for you. Oh and steroids and HGH too. Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it. i dont ever recall hearing this. I dont think that shit was even around lumley, how far back you talking? The reason why batting averages and such were so high were numerous factors, one of which was because of their baseball gloves and how they fit their hands.
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Post by gmgreggor on Jun 22, 2007 9:57:15 GMT -5
Yea, proof of what hard work and perserverence can do for you. Oh and steroids and HGH too. Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it. Well, not really. The main things guys used to cheat with were pitchers using vaseline,spitters,scuffing the ball and stuff like that. Maybe taking speed to pep themselves up for games etc but thats not quite like becoming a freak of nature because of steroids and HGH. Pretty big difference there.
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Post by nova on Jun 22, 2007 12:23:37 GMT -5
Sosa should easily be a HOF'er, but because the majority of the writers are paranoid idiots, he won't be.
Honestly, I would vote for Bonds as well. Sure, he probably took steroids. However, there has NEVER been any conclusive evidence to show he has, ie. he's never failed a test. Sure there are theories; his head has enlarged, he has put on a lot of muscle, his insane power #'s in what should be his declining years, etc. However, I still believe in innocent until proven guilty, and until there is actual proof and actual evidence that he used, I see no reason why he shouldn't be voted into the HOF.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 22, 2007 12:31:44 GMT -5
Sosa should easily be a HOF'er, but because the majority of the writers are paranoid idiots, he won't be. Honestly, I would vote for Bonds as well. Sure, he probably took steroids. However, there has NEVER been any conclusive evidence to show he has, ie. he's never failed a test. Sure there are theories; his head has enlarged, he has put on a lot of muscle, his insane power #'s in what should be his declining years, etc. However, I still believe in innocent until proven guilty, and until there is actual proof and actual evidence that he used, I see no reason why he shouldn't be voted into the HOF. Being a Giants fan Im positive Bonds took steroids, and I could really care less if he gets into the HOF, but its baseballs fault there was a steroids problem at all. It was obvious by the time McGwire and Sosa were bombing for 61 that there was a steroid problem but baseball looked the other way. Bonds who was an elite player at the time without steroids basically said fuck it, if theyre doing it, Im doing it. The next year he came to camp a different person. if baseball wouldve stepped in with stringent steroid testing then, none of this ever wouldve been a problem. But the problem is, steroids saved baseball. It was dying, and the HRs helped a ton.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 22, 2007 12:33:38 GMT -5
Yea, proof of what hard work and perserverence can do for you. Oh and steroids and HGH too. Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it. Im sure there was drug use, but like Greg said, it jsut isnt the same comparison.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 22, 2007 12:34:52 GMT -5
Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it. i dont ever recall hearing this. I dont think that shit was even around lumley, how far back you talking? The reason why batting averages and such were so high were numerous factors, one of which was because of their baseball gloves and how they fit their hands. I think the biggest difference was the immense difference between great players and average players. i think in certain parts of baseball history the truly great players were worlds apart from the average player. i think in todays game, with the amount of training, and video and such the mediocre player has closed the gap on the great player.
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Post by Lumley316 on Jun 22, 2007 12:45:51 GMT -5
i dont ever recall hearing this. I dont think that shit was even around lumley, how far back you talking? The reason why batting averages and such were so high were numerous factors, one of which was because of their baseball gloves and how they fit their hands. I think the biggest difference was the immense difference between great players and average players. i think in certain parts of baseball history the truly great players were worlds apart from the average player. i think in todays game, with the amount of training, and video and such the mediocre player has closed the gap on the great player. Plus world wide scouting.
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Post by Spencer on Jun 22, 2007 12:47:21 GMT -5
Ive always been of the opinion that athletes have come so far, if you put a mediocre player from now back into pre 50's sports they would be close to dominate.
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Post by Lumley316 on Jun 22, 2007 12:48:50 GMT -5
Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it. i dont ever recall hearing this. I dont think that shit was even around lumley, how far back you talking? The reason why batting averages and such were so high were numerous factors, one of which was because of their baseball gloves and how they fit their hands. Very far back around 40s or so. There was alot of shit people didnt now how to test certain drugs and such. Points is people will keep trying to improve themselves somehow until its found to be against the rules.
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Post by Lumley316 on Jun 22, 2007 12:50:35 GMT -5
Hey it been proven that int he olden days players did other similar crap and got away with it. Well, not really. The main things guys used to cheat with were pitchers using vaseline,spitters,scuffing the ball and stuff like that. Maybe taking speed to pep themselves up for games etc but thats not quite like becoming a freak of nature because of steroids and HGH. Pretty big difference there. How about back in the day when players used metal cleats and would actually sharpen them to fuck up the guys they slid into. That is freaking sick lol.
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Post by gmgreggor on Jun 22, 2007 14:04:53 GMT -5
Ive always been of the opinion that athletes have come so far, if you put a mediocre player from now back into pre 50's sports they would be close to dominate. Well, I've had this argument with friends and some media types before. You kinda have to quantify this outlook. Here's where you have to make some allowances. Before the late 70's and FA began guys had to have jobs in the offseason. Players now make enough money to train year round. Allow the older players to work on their game yr round and have nutritionists and personal trainers and is there really that big a gap? And the games have changed. Most notably baseball. Mound was lowered to give hitters more of an advantage in the 60's. Pitchers cant throw inside anymore. You hit a homerun and prance around the bases back then like these guys do and there's going to be retibution next time thru the lineup. I think that also affects batting numbers these days. Pitchers cant pitch inside. But here's where I think there's a huge gap between older players and recent guys. Again mainly baseball here. What did kids do back then? Played baseball. I remember even when I was a kid and I'm older than I think all you guys you'd see kids out playing sandlot baseball as did I. Nowadays how many times do you see kids doing that? As well as now there's basketball which you do see kids playing,football is much more popular and then there's the video game and TV aspect. I'm not sure that even without todays training you take an older team and let them play a team nowadays they wouldnt beat them. They were just so much better in the fundamentals of the game. Not to mention the ballparks were bigger for the most part and guys that played the OF then had to be able to run the parks were so big. I think the old polo grounds was like 460 feet to CF thats huge, hell it isnt any wonder there wasnt as many HR's hit. As far as the other sports the history really isnt nearly as old so it's probably not as much a factor. Now I'm also throwing the old negro leagues in there. They couldnt play in MLB of course back in the early 1900's but Satchel Paige,and Josh Gibson and some of those guys from those lgs were great also from what I'v read. And I am a bit of a MLB history buff. Love the history of that game. To wrap it up I'm not sure I'd bet on these modern guys beating them even if they did play as they were, without recent training.
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